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The Bob Baker Interview
In Conversation with Eddie
I'm very blessed in my new role in Outpost Skaro to be able to chat to some of the most influential people to have graced Doctor Who. What is really encouraging and heart warming is to know these people and find out how warm and friendly they are... without exception I've met a whole host of wonderful, inspirational and amiable people, and my latest chat is no different.
Bob Baker was one half of a writing team during Doctor Who's first Golden Age. You may not know it, but he is responsible for some of the most iconic moments in the series history. He's written dialogue people are still quoting today - "So, you are my replacements, eh? A dandy and a clown!", "Eldrad must live" and "contact has been made" are just three very, very recognisable lines carved deep in Whovian lore. Add to that the names of his adventures... The Claws of Axos, The Mutants, The Three Doctors, The Sontaran Experiment, The Hand of Fear, The Invisible Enemy and The Armageddon Factor, not to forget Nightmare of Eden and you can see, this man, along with his writing partner Dave Martin, is a legend in the field.
And of course, let's not forget his career beyond Doctor Who. Dabbling with Oscars with Wallace & Gromit and writing for other Television icons like Shoestring and Bergerac don't even scratch the surface.
But it is for a certain tin dog - one who's charms still delight children today - that he is best known. From a bit part in The Invisible Enemy, K9 has become as iconic as the series which spawned him, and, still today, supplies punch-the-air moments with memorable appearances in School Reunion, Journey's End and, of course, The Sarah Jane Adventures.
All primarily drives are functioning, master... initiate the mind probe...
How did you get into writing?
I WAS MAKING ANIMATED FILMS AND WORKING WITH OTHER PEOPLE WHO USED MY ANIMATION ROSTRUM (LAURIE BOOTH WAS ONE OF THEM), ONE PERSON WAS DOING A FILM BASED ON THE POEM PETER GRIMES AND I THOUGHT HE WASN’T TREATING THE SUBJECT PROPERLY SO I DECIDED TO DO IT AS A MOVIE, BUT I HAD NOT WRITTEN ANYTHING BEFORE.
How did you end up working with Dave Martin?
I MET DAVE THROUGH A MUTUAL FRIEND. HE WAS AN ADVERTISING COPY WRITER OF SOME NOTE, WINNING PRIZES ETC. I TOLD HIM ABOUT THE PETER GRIMES THING AND HE SAID WELL LET’S WRITE IT. SO WE DID, AND IT VERY NEARLY WAS MADE AS A MOVIE. EVERYTHING WAS IN PLACE AND THE DIRECTOR DIED. THE HOUSE OF CARDS THAT IS A MOVIE SET-UP FELL. DAVE AND I FELT THAT HAVING COME SO CLOSE WE’D KEEP GOING. HE GAVE UP HIS JOB AND WE JUST WROTE THINGS ON SPEC. WE GOT A HALF HOUR DRAMA WITH HTV. SEEING OUR NAMES ON SCREEN WAS THE FINAL PUSH TO SEEING OURSELVES AS PROFESSIONAL WRITERS.
Is there a difference between writing alone and writing with a partner?
IT’S NOT QUITE SO MUCH FUN WRITING ALONE, BUT IT DOESN’T WORRY ME.
How did you get your initial Doctor Who gig, The Claws of Axos?
DAVE AND I SENT A SCRIPT (AN ARMY STORY) TO “BBC LONDON” AND A YEAR LATER WE WERE CONTACTED BY A PRODUCER AND SCRIPT EDITOR WHO SAID THEY LIKED IT AND WANTED TO DO IT. WE WENT TO SEE THEM AND GRADUALLY, THROUGH A LIQUID LUNCH, THEY REVEALED THAT THEY DID DR WHO AND WOULD WE LIKE TO DO ONE?. WE SAID YES, STILL CONFUSED ABOUT OUR ARMY STORY. IT WAS ONLY AN EXCUSE TO MEET US INCOGNITO TO ASSESS US FOR WHO. IT THEN TOOK A WHOLE YEAR BEFORE OUR OUTLINE WAS ACCEPTED.
What was your thinking behind this adventure?
WE WANTED TO DO A NICE KIND MONSTER THAT GOT TO EARTH TO TRADE (AFTER ALL THAT’S WHAT WE HUMANS DID WHEN WE CROSSED THE OCEANS) BUT THEN THEY TURN INTO MONSTERS AND THREATEN THE EARTH. THE SHIP WAS CONSTRUCTED LIKE A BRAIN SO THAT THE AXONS WERE ALL PART OF ONE BEING.
With The Mutants there was a strong anti-apartheid message – was this deliberate?
IT MOST CERTAINLY WAS. THE IDEA CENTERED AROUND BRITAIN’S SLOW RETREAT FROM EMPIRE AFTER THE SECOND WORLD WAR. WE ALSO PLAYED WITH THE IDEA THAT NOT ALL BEINGS HAVE THE SAME RATE OF AGEING.
And of course being given The Three Doctors must have been a treat! Did you have to research the other Doctors? How much was “given” to you by Terrance?
YES. IT WAS GREAT. I’D SEEN PRETTY WELL EVERY DR WHO SINCE IT STARTED SO I WAS QUITE CLUED UP ON THE OTHERS. DAVE OBVIOUSLY KNEW ENOUGH TO GET THEM IN CHARACTER. TERRANCE WAS MOST HELPFUL AT THE SECOND DRAFT STAGE ESPECIALLY AFTER WILL HARTNEL HAD TO CURTAIL HIS APPEARANCE. OTHERWISE IT WAS PRETTY MUCH OUR BRAIN CHILD THE BLACK HOLE AND ALL. WE BOUGHT A LOAD OF SCIENTIFIC BOOKS TO RESEARCH IT ALL, BUT IT RARELY APPEARS ON THE SCREEN.
The Sontaran Experiment is a brilliant little nugget of Who – how did that come about?
IT CAME ABOUT BECAUSE OF BUDGETRY CONSTRAINTS, THE DESIGN BUDGET FOR A PREVIOUS SHOW HAD GONE OVER, WITH A SUPERB BUT VERY EXPENSIVE SET. SO THE PRODUCTION OFFICE DECIDED TO MAKE THE SET ECONOMICAL BY DOING SIX EPISODES WITH IT INSTEAD OF FOUR, THAT LEFT TWO SLOTS EMPTY. WE HAD REAL FUN DOING A TWO-PARTER WHO COMPLETELY ON LOCATION.
Another classic in so much as you wrote out Sarah Jane in The Hand of Fear… was the focusing of Sarah in this adventure deliberate seeing as how she was leaving?
I THINK YOU CAN ONLY SAY THAT IN HIND SIGHT. WE JUST WANTED TO DO A GOOD STORY BASED AROUND ‘THE HAND OF ORLIK’ A THIRTIES HORROR MOVIE, WE DIDN’T KNOW SARAH WAS LEAVING WHEN WE WROTE IT. I THINK IT WORKED VERY WELL AS HER SWANSONG.
And then came The Invisible Enemy and a certain tin dog… how orchestrated was K9? I know he joined the TARDIS quite late on, but did you see the potential at the time?
K9 WAS ENTIRELY UN-ORCHESTRATED, HE WAS SIMPLY A CHARACTER WE PUT IN FOR TO BUILD UP THE CHARACTER OF THE DOG LOVING PROF. MARIUS. WE HAD NO IDEA WHATSOEVER THAT THE MUTT WOULD BE TAKEN ON AS A REGULAR. THAT WAS A MOST PLEASANT SURPRISE.
The Underworld again has quite strong themes in it – is this something that’s conscious in your writing? It’s famous for some spectacularly dodgy Blue Screen… how close to your “visions” are the adventures actually realised?
DAVE AND I ALWAYS LIKED TO GIVE A STORY A STRONG BASIS AND IT WAS ALWAYS FUN TO GIVE AN OLD STORY – IN THIS CASE ‘JASON AND THE ARGANAUTS’ - A SCI-FI SETTING. WE MADE UP FUN NAMES SUCH AS THE P.7. E. PERSEPHONE. THE NOTABLE THING ABOUT ‘UNDERWORLD’ IS THAT IT WAS ALMOST ENTIRELY SHOT WITH CSO THE EARLY VERSION OF CGI. IT MAY HAVE SEEMES ‘DODGY’ BUT IT WAS CUTTING EDGE AT THE TIME. I THINK THE PRODUCTION TEAM ALWAYS DID THEIR BEST, OBVIOUSLY IT WASN’T ALWAYS EXACTLY AS WE’D ENVISIONED IT, BUT WHO CARES, IF THE STORY WORKS IT DOESN’T MATTER THAT MUCH.
The Armageddon Factor seems to be a story full of strings to tie up – were you given a shopping list? And of course, the Doctor is given a nickname in this – where you aware this was a first?
YES, IT WAS THE LAST OF ‘THE KEY OF TIME’ STORY ARC, BUT WE DIDN’T LET IT DETER US FROM DOING THE STORY WE WANTED TO DO, ABOUT A WAR THAT MIGHT GO ON FOREVER AND A MIND SET (THE MARSHALL) THAT CAN ONLY SEE WAR AS A SOLUTION. THE MAIN THRUST WAS THE FACT THAT THE FINAL PIECE TO THE ‘KEY’ WAS A HUMAN BEING ALSO GAVE IT AN EDGE IN THAT THE DOCTOR HAS TO DECIDE TO END HER LIFE TO COMPLETE THE KEY, A TYPICAL WHOVIAN DILEMMA. NO, WE WERE UNAWARE THAT THE DOCTOR HADN’T BEEN GIVEN A NICKNAME.
After Nightmare Of Eden you didn’t write for Doctor Who again – how come? Of course, a good way back would have been K9 & Company, which went to Terance Dudley...Why did they notcome to you and Dave? And what did you think of A Girls Best Friend?
I WAS NEVER ASKED TO WRITE FOR IT AGAIN. TERRENCE DUDLEY WAS A FRIEND OF THE PRODUCER, DAVE AND I FELT INSULTED THAT WE WEREN’T AT LEAST ASKED TO DO THE K9 AND COMPANY SCRIPT. IT TURNED OUT TO BE , IN OUR OPINION, VERY WEAK, NOT LEAST BECAUSE OF K9’S UNGAINLY MOVEMENT AND BEING CARRIED EVERYWHERE. IT WAS THEN I KNEW THAT K9 HAD TO HOVER.
Jumping forward a bit, your now very well known for writing the Wallace and Gromit stories – how did that come about?
I’D KNOWN AARDMAN SINCE THEY SET UP IN BRISTOL AND GREATLY ADMIRED THEIR WORK. THE BBC WANTED NICK PARK TO DO A FOLLOW UP TO ‘A GRAND DAY OUT’ AND FELT HE MIGHT NEED THE HELP OF A WRITER. I WAS ASKED IF I’D LIKE TO HAVE A GO. I MET WITH NICK , WE GOT ON WELL AND SHARED A SIMILAR SENSE OF HUMOUR – SO IMPORTANT WHEN WRITING IN COLLABORATION . THE RESULT WAS ‘THE WRONG TROUSERS’ AND THE REST FILLOWED ON.
And of course then K9 reappeared in School Reunion – were you contacted about that? How does it work with you and the rights to K9 and his appearances in Doctor Who and Sarah Jane?
RUSSELL T. DAVIS AND JULIE GARDNER ASKED US IT THEY COULD USE K9 IN AN UPCOMING SERIES OF DR WHO. WE WERE QUITE HAPPY FOR THEM TO DO SO. IT WAS FOR A STRAIGHT FORWARD FEE, THE SAME WITH THE S.J. ADVENTURES.
And now he’s back in his own series – what can you tell us about this? For instance, for Whovians, things like timelines are important – which K9 is this? A new one? One of the two on Gallifrey?
THE REGENERATED K9 IS POSSIBLY THE ONE THAT LEELA HAD ON GALLIFREY.
Is Doctor Who implied in anyway in the new series?
BECAUSE OF COPYRIGHTS ETC. WE WERE NOT ALLOWED TO LINK THE NEW K9 TO ANYTHING IN DR WHO. NOT EVEN IMPLIED, BUT I THINK FANS WILL UNDERSTAND SOME OF THE CYPHERS BURIED DEEP IN THE SERIES.
What are you hoping for with it?
A HUGE WORLDWIDE SUCCESS AND A UK TERRESTRIAL SHOWING.
How important was it to have John Leeson on board?
JOHN WAS MY FIRST CHOICE BUT I HAD TO FIGHT FOR HIM.I’M RELLY PLEASED HE’S DOING IT.
How do you think its going?
SERIES ONE HAS BEEN COMPLETED. QUITE SIMPLY, IT LOOKS GREAT! I HOPE YOU’LL ALL AGREE.
Is there any indication it’ll make it to Blighty?
WE HOPE SO, THE SIGNS AT MIPCOM WERE GOOD, BUT ALL IS STILL UNDER WRAPS
What have you got coming up in the future?
I COULD WELL BE INVOLVED IN A SECOND SERIES OF K9 BUT AT THE MOMENT I’M IN THE EARLY STAGES OF A NEW PROGRAMME FOR AARDMAN…SOMETHING A BIT DIFFERENT. CAN’T SAY ANY MORE.
Thanks to Bob for taking time to chat to me, and for Laurie for the assistance.
The Sarah Jane Adventures are broadcast from Thursday 15th October, 4.35pm BBC1
For information on the new K9 series, please check Outpost Skaro regularly, and Bob's own website, the link for which in on our front page.
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